The atheist Jerry Coyne speaking at a 2013 atheist meeting entitled The Amazing Meeting (TAM). Unfortunately, when you ask Rebecca, Jen, Greta, Amy and other women why they won’t reveal the names of these people, they make excuses, resort to ad hominem, and will probably ban you. Perhaps there is no harm. The only people we hate more than the Religous are the fucking Atheist People’s Front. Atheism. We might as atheists also fight these causes, but it is not part of atheism. And that’s his choice. It won’t help anyone on the path to A plusness any faster. “These are only some of the stories I’ve seen.” ( Log Out / No evidence, just stories. had anything of interest to say. If so, who is sitting on the committee? Even if you are still on McCreight’s side at this point, you might have your own idea about what ‘Atheism+’ should mean. Whatever they may say they do. Dear Notung, congratulations with this excellently written article, I agree 100%. It’s one component that can inform any number of worldviews. The Freedom From Atheism Foundation was created as a grassroots civil rights Facebook group to help protect the rights of religious believers, address the rising tide of intolerant atheism across the world, and be a beacon of hope and support for victims of atheist hate. Why ARE there fewer women involved, and how do we make women more comfortable/safe/whatever? I don’t object to atheists extending their viewpoint, but atheism isn’t the only valid starting point, and from a global point of view isn’t the most important. Rebecca Watson still gets an un-ending tirade of rape threats. Any ideas? Their brand of feminism is the priority, and everything else is an add on. This is Greta Christina’s latest post about men calling her things: http://freethoughtblogs.com/greta/2012/08/24/mencallmethings-fuckin-hoe-fuckin-feminazi-slut/ One might be that debunking pseudo-scientific claims is a hobby for them. I think that I have been arguing that issues of equality, when not confined to meta-issues like conference organisation and so forth are examples of mission drift. Atheism Essay 1443 Words | 6 Pages. Watson’s behavior has established that her claims cannot be taken at face value. Or rather, mocking atheism is just plain free speech (though it may or may not be ignorant and pointlessly cruel). It does seem like a way to exclude people who don’t agree. There are plenty of religious people who fought and are still fighting for some form of social justice: Martin Luther King, Mary Daly, and more recently Giles Fraser, Rowan Williams and Christina Rees (and many more, of course). If not, why not simply put them together as one? Atheism is rejecting the belief in a god or gods. I mean, of course, the more people join the cause the better, but at the same time, we need to respect that people have different interests, and with only 24 hours in the day, people might choose different activities. TAM is an annual meeting. One thought on “ Importance of Atheism ” Atheist June 16, 2016. “I believe in social justice plus I’m an atheist”. stream Diversity should be encouraged and accommodated, but it should not be the primary goal of a movement that is primarily about something else. And finally, while women’s rights should be advocated, men’s rights shouldn’t be ignored. An Atheist does not believe in a god or gods, or other supernatural entities. If they go down this road, they will learn that everything is in fact the same and that they are essentially in a movement with people from various political persuasions, some more radical than others, and those others are going to want their viewpoint put forth as well, while the only thing they truly have in common is atheism. The “first wave” of atheism were the traditional philosophers, freethinkers, and academics. Congratulations to Jen McCreight (hereafter JM) for putting forth an idea that struck a responsive chord. Brian: Can I…, join your group? I supported the ACLU when they defended hate groups and even when they stood up for corporate speech. [Long audience applause.] I think this relates to what you’re saying: http://bigthink.com/ideas/43539, […] to be carefully thought out. ���-�(�g�EY���z�bBX�u�i���}Kj�PGv��>JɓBDJt�˫�0ɤ���'��,�[�W ����0��ݵCȣ�^�i�����r�����H��� ���B���}��Y����Hq������I��zoTc���;��.�c. Or the People’s Front for Judea? That would be a contradiction. Sickening.”. Dissension from the received wisdom is now classed as an evil, viewing it as ignorance or stupidity maybe but evil!? Thunderf00t escaped, but now they have hypnotised Carrier, who was the last person in the FreeFromThoughtBlog hive to have acquiesced to such irrational bonkers insanity. I have never been impressed by Carrier (I tried to watch the recording of his Skepticon 3 talk, but he made so many factual and reasoning errors that I had to stop at about 20 minutes), but delusions of grandeur are what come to mind when I read that post. He also banned a transsexual for complaining about comparing the Catholic clergy to transexuals. May 28, 2016 - Atheist Humour, Memes, Discussion, News, & Videos I’d argue that it’s already happened before. What do you suggest?”. “Death threats and rape threats are not acceptable. Another might be to prevent harm done by people peddling homeopathy as a substitute for real medicine, and this is a very worthwhile goal. It’s not a worldview, and never could be. I don’t think it’s about any particular brand of feminism any more than it’s any of those other things you mentioned. Jen has never listened to advice that does not suit her self-serving agenda. I’ve been called a bitch by the same people who would faint if the same happened to Watson. The term atheism comes from the Greek word atheos, meaning godless. ( Log Out / Who were the atheists who thought it was funny? And its usually not. I especially agree with point #3. I’m not sure that “serious” and not ego-driven are mutually exclusive. Well, Michael Shermer certainly not. Are you mad? In 2011, Coyne said about the atheist conferences which he attended that they had an air of self-congratulation. Reg: Yeah. Thanks for the comment. Compare that to the ridicule A+ heaps onto atheists who work with Christians to increase acceptance of evolution. Atheism plus is an attempt to define a new subgroup in the atheist movement - a subgroup that is concerned with atheism plus some elements of social justice. The idea that people like Drescher and I are ‘infesting’ the movement and causing it ‘to die’ is in my view, very unfair. It’s more than just a silly, juvenile fad. I happened to read the post Jen made where she listed out all the ism’s that Atheism+ (A+) will cover and I found it hilarious. Francis: Whatever happened to the Popular Front, Reg? This is the Anti "Atheism Plus" subreddit: for those who feel that Atheism Plus is either a … See also: Atheism debates and Atheism vs. Christianity debates The new atheist Christopher Hitchens was known for being an eloquent and passionate public speaker who injected humor in his public speaking.. I don’t mind them telling me what they believe, so long as they tolerate opposing viewpoints. Point #5 makes it clear that they are, in actuality, “their particular brand of feminism + atheists”. This isn’t that difficult. 3) It is unclear exactly which issues should follow the ‘plus’. What threats? Unlike me, she doesn’t live alone, either. Barry:” If we all treated religions as hobbies, (which is really what religious practices are), the other problems become far more important than religions.” Not ‘Atheists+’. That’s not a very good approach, if you want people, especially skeptics, atheists, humanists, to be convinced. In August 2012, Jennifer McCreight (the organizer of Boobquake) founded a movement within atheism known as Atheism Plus, or A+, that "applies skepticism to everything, including social issues like sexism, racism, politics, poverty, and crime". Change ), You are commenting using your Twitter account. Paula Kirby was told to kill herself today. But sometimes I think they overstate their power in the atheist movement. I see this as nothing more than another bad response to criticism. Thanks! Yes, exactly. One that is supportive of LGBT issues, feminism, people of colour, and one that embraces social justice. It is much better to argue the issue rather than making it about purity (in some sense of the word). “I think that all good, right thinking people in this country are sick and tired of being told that all good, right thinking people in this country are fed up with being told that all good right thinking people in this country are fed up with being sick and tired. Many people do not actively help disabled people in their plight, for example. I would like to know who exactly gets to throw people out. Change ). Social justice is not the priority. Maybe, fewer women are interested in the movement (just like, apparently from what I have read, fewer men than women are interested in church). Brian: A lot! Change ), You are commenting using your Facebook account. And yet the Christian (or post-Christian) world would do well to note the example of the Far East. I’m interested in how long this’ll last. It’s like all perspective and reason have been deemed superfluous to requirements and jettisoned. Because the examples are infinite. He’s a ‘renowned author’ with ‘avid fans’ who ‘span the world’! Certainly the use of such aggressive language such as ‘well you can just fuck off’ , ‘you’re either with us or against us’, is hardly likely to endear this nascent organisation, (or whatever it turns out to be), to many people who might have some worthwhile viewpoints to offer. It is unclear how we decide what does or does not count as part of ‘Atheism+’. However, it is quite another matter if atheists, skeptics, humanists and the like threaten you with rape. Likewise, with the other women who have received similar threats: No names of these atheists. If you look at the timing, it makes sense. September 16, 2019 . I agree with Claus. You can only burn so many bridges before you’re living on an island. At the very least, those who threaten with rape should be reported to the police. Talk about arrogance and intolerance! It’s simply another layer of stigmatism that is coddling an emotional response from those who are willing to follow the herd. I sometimes wonder what to call the amalgamation of ingredients I have assembled for my evening meal; regardless, I turn it all into poop. Atheism Plus does not bury the “atheism” part but keeps it at the forefront of one’s socio-religious identity. It just isn’t possible that they are wrong or are ill-equipped to lead. Dunning was attacked because they didn’t like a picture that he used for an album cover. He said if you disagree with anything they believe in, then you’re a vile and repugnant human being. The object of this initiative is clearly not to act as an including political force, but to establish itself as the elitist one: Not only are the members atheists, they are the atheists with a social conscience. Atheism plus is an attempt to define a new subgroup in the atheist movement - a subgroup that is concerned with atheism plus some elements of social justice. [This speech was delivered before the Society of Separationists in 1976. Are you the Atheist People’s Front? What about atheist pro-lifers? Together with “intersectionality”, a theory in feminist sociology, it leads one to suspect that the goals are not just clearly feminist, but gender feminist: Women are seen as perpetual victims, as the current events in our midst certainly leaves that impression. Twas little more than casual dismissive insult, exhortation to GTFO and the mere assertion that a naysayer was irrational or similar, and thus presumably no more need be said in answer to their points. In August 2012, Jennifer McCreight founded a movement known as Atheism Plus that "applies skepticism to everything, including social issues like sexism, racism, politics, poverty, and crime." When people find out that I am an atheist, they often assume that I subscribe to a over-arching “progressive” ideology and are surprised that I do not march in lock-step on a variety of political issues. Atheism Kentucky Atheist Awarded $150,000 In Fight Over Vanity License Plates A federal court previously granted his "IM GOD" license plate request as a matter of free speech. While we can speculate about women’s interests and whether they are genetic or socially conditioned, this is a pointless exercise when it comes to addressing the issue. No clue why they want atheism to get top billing. Brian: I don’t want to sell this stuff, it’s only a job. I got home from a late shift, and then made a dessert for our staff party tomorrow, so I haven’t read any recents posts. It’s about ego. ( Log Out / Where Feminism and Atheism and Social Justice meet. Dare to criticize and you must be projecting or jealous. I have nothing to add. I posted this nearly 3 days ago……. That’s not a view I myself hold, but I wouldn’t want to alienate people just because they disagree with me. McCreight isn’t talking about the definition of ‘atheism’, but rather she is talking about forming a new movement with atheism at its core. Atheism plus is a divisive movement started by short sighted-power seeking Prima Donnas looking to hijack and existing movement (atheism) for personal glory and intellectual bigotry. “Taking off”? Secondly, those who do spent a lot of time debunking homeopathy might have a variety of reasons for doing so. Fantastic post, Notung. *shrug*. It is a positive belief accompanying some people’s atheism after all. The bullying behavior of certain atheist groups is out of control. @�zOr�}|w��*K�w�R2Ɛ I’m sceptical of that, too. By now, you’ve heard from Mr. Yeti and from me, Shermertron, that Carrier is a lying hypocrite who treats women poorly while leading the moral crusade he believes atheism should be.. Well, Carrier has finally responded. ( Log Out / Atheism Plus had a website that was active from 2012 to 2016. As to the question of why fewer women attend TAM now, the whole ‘you’re gonna get raped!’ internet scaremongering FTBers have been doing just might have something to do with it. Now the A+ people want to take the stereotype that atheists are associated with all aspects of the modern “progressive” ideology and make it official. Except it’s not – currently a lot of prominent atheists are white males, yes, but there’s also a lot of good, prominent female skeptics, black skeptics, etc, and acting like the skeptic movement is somehow biased anytime one group appears to be underrepresented is basically undermining skepticism as a whole. The email that made Benson decide not to go was from a concerned friend. Demonizing men isn’t going to make them sympathetic to your cause. You can shun or try to silence as many people as you want. God uses natural evils (natural disasters, sickness, etc) to illustrate … It won’t make anyone go away, it won’t make anyone shut up. What I’m not seeing is an alternative response to the problems they are attempting to deal with. However, it is certainly true that many atheists in America are focused on religion. What happened to the First Amendment? I’m still wondering who the one boy in the club is. Like any other thing, religion must be criticized, there are a lot of bad things that happen in every religion. Apparently, you expect this to happen rather often. skepticism and rationality. And a final reason is that there are simply less women in the hard sciences than there are men. Here’s what I’d suggest. Anyway, I learned that it’s OK to post my home address because I’m annoying, and that posting my business address in always OK so that people can try to damage my career as a lawyer because it’s relevant to my online behavior…or vice versa… or something. S parks flew at the 2017 MythCon conference on Saturday when British YouTuber and cultural critic Carl Benjamin, aka Sargon of Akkad, exchanged verbal blows and jabs with his interviewer, Thomas Smith, an atheist and skeptic podcast host. Step 3: if you think I should get involved, and I just despair if you do, then show & tell Is that reasonable? — Monty Python. It is the best thing about A+ I have read so far! None of which are gods, or are believed to reside in any dimension other than right here on Earth, in the here and now. Thanks! Seriously. It certainly isn’t new that people who don’t know much about the movements they join would be disappointed that it doesn’t turn out to be what they are looking for and it isn’t new that they wouldn’t realize that what they are looking for already exists. If Jen is not to be a hypocrite, she should be praising Raelians to the rooftops! Given PZ’s admissions that his methods include inciting tribalism and conflict, this is shaping into a hate group. If there is to be an atheist movement at all, it should be to ensure that atheists are not discriminated against, but this is not to say that the atheist movement should not promote these sorts of things internally. Thanks for the comment. WATCH ON YOUTUBE. What about a welfare state? Why exclude them? Okay, the general reaction here seems to be, ‘We don’t like Atheism+’. People are telling you that you don’t understand science and can’t understand their arguments well enough to refute them? Ivanka Trump appears to … “Oh no, don’t worry, I haven’t disallowed your post. Of course, atheism is compatible with ‘belief in nothing’, but usually atheists will hold other positive beliefs about other issues. Arguments should be interpreted most charitably so that the strongest argument prevails. All are welcome From all religions, Ideologies and Beliefs! Granted, it is happening at a network that most of us are basically ignoring, partly because they seem to have little to offer reasonable people (there are only one or two skeptical blogs which have managed to maintain integrity, such as “Token Skeptic”), but mostly because they/we find their behavior morally reprehensible. Notung: “The label ‘atheist’ doesn’t speak about other beliefs you might have, unless it would be contradictory …”. Who were the atheists who wondered if it were immoral to rape a Skepchick? Reg: Listen. Now it’s time for a third wave – a wave that isn’t just a bunch of “middle-class, white, cisgender, heterosexual, able-bodied men” patting themselves on the back for debunking homeopathy for the 983258th time or thinking up yet another great zinger to use against Young Earth Creationists. Amy changed her story with every breeze, and now it has morphed out of all belief. Is this marginalizing, McCarthyite call to cull a Poe? Fair enough. The point raised in a comment about feminism being the primary driving force underlying the initiative is very convincing and I would add that there is a desire for power and control as well, as they realized that was not something they could wrestle away from longstanding organizations. Change ), You are commenting using your Google account. Change the conversation. I have already seen requests for extra doctrines, like animal rights and so forth. Need I go on? In your debates with Richard Dawkins, Christopher Hitchens, Michael Shermer, and others, did the atheists ever make you sweat? Or evil. “I would add that there is a desire for power and control as well, as they realized that was not something they could wrestle away from longstanding organizations.”. )They filed suit against both the County of Palm Beach and the City of Boca Raton, where a 2017 ordinance prohibited the practice. Carrier may have simply chosen not to publish your comment. Brilliant article. While he gave this talk back in October, it wasn’t online until now. Barbara Drescher wrote an excellent post about the issue of mission drift in the skeptical movement. They maintain that to date the United States has actually had four presidents who were atheists. I tend to agree. 1.1 University of Kentucky study by Will M. Gervais helps demonstrate atheist hypocrisy about being good without God; 1.2 Jesus and the Bible on human nature; 1.3 Richard Carrier, adultery, divorce, polyamory and being good without God; 2 Atheism and Hell. That is important. .” Now the A+ people want to take the stereotype that atheists are associated with all aspects of the modern “progressive” ideology and make it official, and if you don’t march in ideological lockstep with them on every single issue, you are an outcast, and in reality a sub-human (If you don’t think that the bloggers on FtB think that people who disagree with them are sub-human, just read PZ’s blog for a while). I thought freethought was beyond such trivial notions. For instance, there should be no sexist or racist (…etc.) Create a free website or blog at WordPress.com. I therefore welcome Atheism Plus as a good next step towards a just resolution of this problem. I certainly have the same worries as you do – that the common misconception that atheists believe x, y, z seems to be embodied in ‘atheism+’. It is one thing that people say bad things about you, especially on the internet. 10 atheist quotes that will make you question religion From psychology to neuroscience, what we believe is not nearly as relevant as why we do. We each make our own contributions in our own way. But it is too narrow, and not inclusive enough. I’m new to the blog and was directed here by a friend and I have to say, great post. Judith: Are you sure? Ultimately, I believe that if this doesn’t die a death on it’s own in a few months, as suggested in a previous comment, it will become clear how foolish it was to try to turn atheism into a sociopoltical movement while still trying to maintain the semblance that everything is the same, there’s just more. Stan: Yeah, the Atheist People’s Front. أهلا بسرڤر اللادينيه! But it also isn’t new that vague, grandiose ideals get people excited. You’re in. What if we disagree about what exactly ‘social justice’ entails? So far, the so called A + movement has given me enough reasons to come to think of them as a godless Christian-like movement, or A †.. Stan: And the People’s Front of Atheism. I have just posted to my blog (go via my name): Their behaviour stinks. He is a full-time faculty member at Portland State University.
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