cpm spy27 vs s30v

REX 45 will have better edge retention but less corrosion resistance. It sucks its exclusive to spyderco. CPM S30V Stainless Steel Precision Ground. Therefore I would expect SPY27 to have toughness at least as good as S35VN and probably better, but that would have to be confirmed experimentally. It is always interesting to see what the numbers predict and it will be cool to see how they play out once you get some to do some real in hand testing. $329.95. Made by @Crucible CPM 20CV is a martensitic stainless steel high in Vanadium, Chromium, and Carbon for excellent wear resistance and corrosion resistance, it’s used for plastic injection feed screws, barrel liners, screw tips, mold cavities, and premium Knives.. CPM, makes the steel stronger than the SAME steel made using a conventional steel manufacturing process. Maxamet is a non-stainless high speed steel capable of high hardness. As I said in the article, “I am probably unlikely to get flatstock for experiments due to the steel being exclusive to Spyderco.” However, after publishing I was contacted by Niagara Specialty Metals (company that hot rolls Crucible steels) and Spyderco offering me some steel for experiments. To see how common the clusters of carbides are I have a lower magnification image of SPY27 below: I also gave some estimates of edge retention, finishing, and sharpening of SPY27. I will be happy with edge performance anywhere in the S30V/Elmax range. Metallurgy and Testing of Knives and Steel. Here are some experimental results of different steels for CATRA slicing edge retention to get a feel for where SPY27 may sit: Toughness of steel can be difficult to predict based only on composition or carbide content. In the article on cobalt additions I wrote, I noted that cobalt additions to high speed steels have been known to reduce toughness which may mean that even if the toughness was improved due to reduced carbide, it may be that the cobalt addition reduced toughness back down to the level of S35VN. Employ especially on knives, its abilities to retain edge sharpness and resist rust are superb. 2.8% of Carbon: It improves hardness and wear/corrosion resistance, but a high amount of it decreases strength.  Originally developed by both Chris Reeve (a world renowned knife maker) and Dick Barber of Crucible Industries, S30V is a martensitic powder-made stainless steel. $265.00. It sharpens easier and is cheaper while still having a pretty great edge retention. Discuss Spyderco's products and history. CPM S110V Steel Chemical composition . This provides the steel good flexibility, offering easy heat treatment to 60 Rc with commercial heat treating and also higher levels if desired. Native® 5 FRN CPM® SPY27™ ... Para Military™ 2 G-10 Dark Blue CPM S110V. SPY27 and S30V have “good” or “above average” corrosion resistance but cannot match 420HC. ; 9% of Vanadium: Improves wear resistance and hardenability. I will have an article on it hopefully in a couple weeks. ... SPY27 supposedly will be more like S30V/S35Vn. previously described corrosion resistance test, cobalt addition leading to slightly worse corrosion resistance. Based on the predicted alloy in solution for SPY27 it should have similar corrosion resistance to S30V and S35VN. You can see more ratings in the corrosion resistance article I linked to above. In the previous SPY27 article I said, “I would expect SPY27 to have toughness at least as good as S35VN and probably better, but that would have to be confirmed experimentally.” I tested toughness by austenitizing the steel at 2000 or 2050°F and then tempering at 400°F. The S30V sample I tested was austenitized at 2000°F and tempered at 500°F. The compression lock is easy to unlock with a single hand and has a four way clip which will carry in any position that is desired. $310.00. So I have spent the past couple months looking at the heat treating and toughness of CPM-154. The S30V and 420HC were also austenitized at 1950°F. The CPM154 was marked at the point somewhere around 20 ft-lbs in your previous chart but now at 5-10 ft-lbs only? I have been wanting to see a steel like this made for some time, and it is great to see how it performs. It may be that those larger clusters are the limiting factor for toughness. Nash, Matt Collingwood, Noah Cowan, James Pierce, and Jay Caponetti for becoming Knife Steel Nerds Patreon supporters! So I was right that the toughness is “at least as good as S35VN” but the “probably better” was a bit too strong. I’ll probably give it a go in the LW para 3 platform. I could not tell the difference between the two heat treatments in this case, however. Martensitic is a specific type of stainless steel alloy. You can see my corrosion resistance rating in the table below: This is a pretty decent corrosion resistance, similar to Elmax (7.8), but is below steels like S45VN (8.4), M390 (9.1), and Vanax (10). The toughness ended up being slightly less than S35VN though at slightly higher hardness so in the end the toughness is equal. SPY27 – 2050°F. Some more information on nitrogen additions to these types of PM stainless steels can be found in this article on S45VN. Contrary to some information available out there, cobalt does not improve toughness or corrosion resistance. So far only two stainless steels have failed this test, XHP and ZDP-189. For a while CPM-S30V was the top of the line steel. At that point very little information was available about the steel other than the composition and that it was produced by Crucible steel. You can read about cold treatments in these articles: Part 1, Part 2, Part 3. In the previous SPY27 article I predicted that it would have “similar hardness to S35VN, S30V, and S45VN” when heat treating with similar parameters. $104.95. ; 15.25% of Chromium: For tensile strength and Edge retention, and enhances corrosion resistance and wear resistance. Although the longitudinal toughness for all three of these grades is about 25-28 ft. Each can reach approximately 64 Rc though are generally tempered down to the 58-61 Rc range depending on the manufacturer and heat treatment. CPM S30V Stainless Steel Blanchard Ground. I took micrographs of the steel that tested for toughness, which means the heat treatments were 2000 or 2050°F austenitize, plate quench, cryo, and tempered at 400°F. There are a couple studies that found a cobalt addition leading to slightly worse corrosion resistance but I’m not sure if this SPY27 study is conclusive enough to confirm that. The two steels aren’t related really. Niobium carbide is very hard, similar in hardness to vanadium carbide, so it makes a significant contribution to wear resistance. The MC carbides are harder than most common abrasives apart from diamond and CBN, so lower MC content leads to easier sharpenability. Your email address will not be published. However, we can look at the composition and make some educated guesses on its performance which I will do below. Become a patron and gain access to awesome rewards including early access to articles or a Knife Steel Nerds mug! By Larry Connelley When looking at quality American-made knives, you'll notice that S35VN and S30V steel are two of the more popular steels for knife blades. I’m so confused about it since I thought CPM154 is very good at toughness aside from its medium edge retention and corrosion resistance. $236.00. Awesome work, Larrin! Yojimbo™ 2 Carbon Fiber CPM 20CV Exclusive. Para Military™ 2 G-10 Digital Camo/Black Blade. Crucible seems to be coming out with more steels lately. This change led to a finer carbide structure and better toughness and machinability than S30V at the cost of a small reduction in edge retention. The resulting steel is expected to have similar hardness and corrosion resistance to S30V and S35VN. And it gives everyone else a chance to see whether I am any good at predicting properties of steel based on composition. The more steels and heat treatments we have added to the toughness chart the more that value of CPM-154 has looked out of place. The steel looks somewhat similar to S35VN but with increased Nb and N, decreased C and V, and a 1.5% cobalt addition. The steel appears to be relatively well balanced and should do well for Spyderco. The Para 3 is Spyderco’s response to a public demand for a more compact, lightweight, and easily concealed military style blade. I'm curious about that Spy27 steel and the Rex45! Qty. Native® 5 FRN CPM® SPY27™ ... UK Penknife™ Red G-10 CPM S30V Exclusive. The blade, which is constructed with high performance CPM-S30V, is fully flat ground, making it a breeze to re-sharpen. You can read more about niobium in this article. The steel can be heat treated over 64 Rc with a liquid nitrogen treatment and a 300°F temper and a range of lower hardness levels with different combinations of parameters. CPM SPY27 is a steel produced by Crucible exclusively for Spyderco. I performed two heat treatments with SPY27, one austenitizing at 1950°F and another at 2050°F. ... CPM 20V, and CTS 204P), we would have the differences from different processes at the different mills and possibly different heat treats. Notify me of follow-up comments by email. 5 months ago. Yojimbo™ 2 Natural G-10 CPM M4 Exclusive. $168.06. Had a couple scratches on blade and a couple on handle. The microstructure confirms somewhat reduced carbide content relative to S35VN, S30V, and S45VN. Speaking of S45VN, it is somewhat surprising that this steel has been announced so shortly after that steel being announced and released. How is it related to MAXAMET ?vObviously I understand it is not as hard but what about the overall quality? OUT OF STOCK. There is a powder form, CPM-D2, ... Crucible intends SPY27 to be good all-around knife steel. Despite the reduced carbide content of SPY27 the toughness was similar to S35VN. The composition of the steel along with some other in the same class are shown below. SPY27 has similar obtainable hardness to S35VN and similar corrosion resistance to S30V. This is a lucky opportunity since it gives me the chance to see what the properties of the steel really are. https://www.patreon.com/Knifesteelnerds, Click to share on Twitter (Opens in new window), Click to share on Facebook (Opens in new window). The test involves heat treating steel, finishing it to 400 grit, and then spraying it every 8 hours either with purified water or 1% saltwater. Manix 2 Lightweight CPM SPY27. Spyderco 2020 Reveal(CPM S45VN, REX45, CPM SPY27 steels) Close. 36 . However, as seen in the micrograph the “carbide clusters” in SPY27 are similar in size to the other steels. Become a patron and gain access to awesome rewards including early access to articles or a Knife Steel Nerds mug! I have shown the 2050°F specimen below, along with comparisons with S30V, S35VN, and S45VN where you can see that SPY27 has somewhat less carbide than the others. I austenitized the steel at different temperatures for 20 minutes and quenched between two 1″ aluminum plates which provides faster cooling rates than holding in air and also helps keeps specimens flat. Shipped with USPS First Class. The Cr and Mo addition provides corrosion resistance, hardenability, and secondary hardening. It's a rare occurrence that we need that level of performance. The 1% niobium content may help refine the overall carbide structure when compared with 0% or 0.5% Nb PM stainless steels. The premium steel boasts some of the best qualities of a good knife steel: it has great edge retention, solid corrosion resistance, and average ease of sharpening. 3/32" 1/8" 5/32" 3/16" Width. It may be that without reducing the chromium carbide content to much lower levels that the toughness remains limited to about 10-12 ft-lbs as is seen with many of these stainless PM steels like Elmax, M390, CPM-154, S35VN, S30V, SG2, etc. MSRP: $175.00. Here is a chart of other steels to compare with S35VN: With similar MC carbide content (NbC + VC) to S35VN and S45VN, SPY27 which be expected to sharpen similar to those two steels. Notify me of follow-up comments by email. Being a little bigger than the Para 3 and utilizing the strong ball bearing locking mechanism and light weight FRCP handles this is sure to be a great knife. Posted by. Hopefully we will be able to learn more as knives are released. The Para 3 Lightweight and Manix 2 Lightweight will be the first two models to feature CPM SPY27 blade steel. 440C 2.5 ft. lbs. Enter your email address to subscribe to this blog and receive notifications of new posts by email. The steel has the same Cr and Mo content as S30V and S35VN. https://www.patreon.com/Knifesteelnerds, Click to share on Twitter (Opens in new window), Click to share on Facebook (Opens in new window). If you want to see tests as they are completed come join us on Patreon. Your email address will not be published. I am looking forward to seeing how this steel compares to others once we get some real-world feedback from users. Though it should be a little easier to abrade away steel because of the lower chromium carbide content (M7C3). Thank you for the article Larrin. [1] https://catalog.spyderco.com/Reveal4/?page=10, [2] https://forum.spyderco.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=85769, [3] https://www.spyderco.com/edge-u-cation/steel-chart/. Here’s what Buck Knives says about S30V: “We consider this the absolute best blade steel available, and it is made in America.” Required fields are marked *. Thanks to ShavedAlpaca, giorgi chubinidze, and Сергей Якунин for becoming Knife Steel Nerds Patreon supporters! 18 . OUT OF STOCK. See the edge retention prediction chart to see the expected carbide volume of SPY27 which came in under S35VN, S30V, S45VN, and Super Gold 2, and is also lower than Elmax and M390 which are not shown in the table. This new design features a slimmer profile so that it feels better in the closed position. Austenitizing at a higher temperature means more chromium carbide is dissolved putting more chromium “in solution” to contribute to corrosion resistance. It may be that the reduced carbon content when compared with S35VN leads to superior toughness. The carbide structure is explored in the next section. The steel is reportedly exclusive to Spyderco. The second model to come out with the new SPY27 steel is the Manix 2. I compared the toughness results with S30V, S35VN, and S45VN. Your email address will not be published. The vanadium was reduced to 2% relative to S35VN. However, it is also controlled by carbide size and I do not have any micrographs of the new steel. In general, lower carbide volume means higher toughness. Update 3/10/2020: We did a range of experiments with SPY27 to supplement the estimates in this article. I have previously performed corrosion resistance experiments and related it to predicted chromium and other alloying elements “in solution,” as you can read here. Spyderco: Native 5 Lightweight - Cobalt Blue FRN - Lockback - CPM-SPY27 - C41PCBL5. Required fields are marked *. CPM SPY27 Steel. Spyderco: SpyOpera - Brown Canvas Micarta - Lockback - M390 - C255CMP ... CPM-S30V - C11FPPNS30V. I have a new CATRA edge retention testing machine. from $34.87. Yojimbo™ 2 G-10 Brown Black Blade CPM S90V Exclusive. I will be posting results as they come in to Patreon and articles summarizing the tests will come later to this website. In the article on S45VN, I found that austenitizing at 2000°F led to a finer microstructure than 1950°F. Sale Price: $122.50. $216.00. Do a through test on 420 hc buck basic cryo hardened steel at there treatment level …corrosion,hardness .edge retention .most people need 420hc cryo because average people can’t sharpen good thanks, Your email address will not be published. Para Military™ 2 Left Hand G-10 Black. SPY27, S30V, and 420HC all passed without corrosion after 4 days. The cobalt addition increases secondary hardening when tempering in the upper temperature range, which I have written about previously here and here. I heat treated coupons of SPY27 by wrapping the steel in stainless foil to protect against scale and decarburization. S30V – 2000°F. The toughness is very close to S35VN. I may have to do some more corrosion testing and modify the ratings. In my ratings of knife steel corrosion resistance, 420HC was rated similarly to S30V. The S35VN or CPM S35V is a high-end martensitic stainless steel made by @Crucible, high in Carbon, Vanadium, and chromium designed to offer a great balance between toughness, hardness and corrosion resistance.It’s used in long-wearing Specialty cutlery, Plastic Injection and Extrusion Feed Screws and Dies, Wear Components for Food and Chemical Processing, and of course in the Knife Industry. I then tempered specimens twice for two hours each time at 300, 400, and 600°F and plotted out the resulting hardness. A further modification was made to S30V which became S35VN released in 2009. S90V has a better edge retention but let's all be honest, edge retention for most of us is just numbers on a piece of paper. CPM S30V 10.0 ft. lbs. 154CM 2.5 ft. lbs. The edge retention of SPY27 is expected to be a bit below S35VN, similar to Super Gold 2, though higher than steels like VG10, 440C, and CPM-154. So we can understand more the Steel, let’s see its chemical composition. However, as seen in the micrograph the “carbide clusters” in SPY27 are similar in size to the other steels. The edge retention is likely a small step down from S35VN. I would argue that S30V is better for every practical need. $217.95. CPM-S30V. The CPM S30V (Which is an acronym for Crucible Particle Metallurgy) is a quality, high endurance steel of American origin. SPY27 is expected to have slightly less edge retention than S35VN and to sharpen similarly or slightly better. Despite its age, it’s a truly superior steel. S35VN – 1975°F. Para Military™ 2 G-10 Dark Gray Maxamet. The carbon content is of SPY27 is balanced to result in a similar hardness to S35VN, S30V, and S45VN, as indicated by carbon in solution estimates from Thermo-Calc: Therefore we would expect the steel to reach a similar hardness to those other CPM stainless steels. The two SPY27 specimens look relatively similar to S30V, and all three are significantly worse than the 420HC. There weren’t obvious differences in the microstructure of SPY27 between 2000 and 2050°F, however. CPM is a trademarked name for a process that is also called Powdered Metallurgy or PM steel. I don’t have a good quantitative test for finishing or sharpening and I have not yet performed any edge retention experiments. Metallurgy and Testing of Knives and Steel. The toughness is probably a bit better than S35VN. Chris Reeve is famous for developing two steels directly with Crucible Industries, and boy did this partnership result in an awesome product. For that article I predicted the relative performance of the steel based on its composition as no material was available for me to test. The steel looks somewhat similar to S35VN but with increased Nb and N, decreased C and V, and a 1.5% cobalt addition. spyderco para 3 lightweight Cpm Spy27. $269.95. The Nb content was bumped up to 1% from the 0.5% of S35VN and S45VN which will of course increase the amount of niobium carbide. level 2. However, there is another proposed explanation which I will cover along with the micrographs below. ... this one! The Sebenza 21. I got a question about the toughness of CPM154 in your chart. Free shipping . Enter your email address to subscribe to this blog and receive notifications of new posts by email. Made from CPM-S30V particle metallurgy stainless steel, the blade is robust with a razor sharp and reliably tough edge. Both S30V and S35VN steel are made with the same carbon and chrome content, and from various tests, both steels provide the same edge retention and corrosion resistance. Thanks to A.N. A 300°F temper is usually the minimum temperature I recommend while 400°F usually gives a good balance of hardness and toughness. I am not sure if this is due to variability of corrosion testing or not. Great breakdown Larrin. 1" 1 1/4" 1 1/2" 2" 4" Length. It also appears that SPY27 did somewhat worse than S30V. MSRP: $180.00. Unfortunately, I am probably unlikely to get flatstock for experiments due to the steel being exclusive to Spyderco. S45VN – 2000°F. CPM SPY27 is a steel produced by Crucible exclusively for Spyderco. The purified water is to test if the steel is acting as a stainless. That’s very interesting. Niobium carbides have also been found to help refine the microstructure of steel. I used carbide contents from Thermo-Calc to estimate CATRA edge retention relative to 440C at 58 Rc (100%). S30V is, in many eyes, the ultimate EDC steel. $216.00. Exclusive Steel: Spyderco Native 5 With SPY27 Knife Review – Now Reviews Hub, Exclusive Steel: Spyderco Native 5 With SPY27 Knife Review | GearJunkie - GARDEN OUTDOOR PRESS, Exclusive Steel: Spyderco Native 5 With SPY27 Knife Review – Nowhere Bound Company. Below shows heat treatments using liquid nitrogen with S35VN which resulted in relatively similar hardness to the experiments with SPY27 shown above: In the previous SPY27 article I predicted that it would have “similar corrosion resistance to S30V and S35VN.” I used my previously described corrosion resistance test of SPY27 along with S30V and 420HC. You can read more about this in the article on S35VN. Condition is Used. You can read those experiments here. I expected the toughness to be better because of the reduced carbon and carbide content when compared with S35VN. Experimental results of SPY27 line up well with the previously provided predictions. Has been sharpened once and will come razor sharp ... Spyderco Para Millie 2 Liner Lock Knife Black G-10 & CPM-S30V C81GP2. On January 15, 2020 Spyderco announced [1] knives being produced in a new steel: CPM SPY27, a steel produced by Crucible. CPM 3V is an American-made steel product by Crucible Industries in Syracuse, New York. I have an article about SPY27 which I wrote immediately after the announcement of the steel. You can also see that the trend for this class of steels is to have improved toughness with higher hardening temperatures, at least up to 2050°F. I estimated edge retention for a hardness of 61 Rc. All of these specimens included a cryo treatment after quenching before tempering. The ease or difficulty in burr removal would be more based on the heat treatment, particularly when it comes to retained austenite, as lower retained austenite makes burr removal easier. The composition [3] is as follows: I don’t have any of the steel for analysis, and given it is exclusive to Spyderco I may not be able to get any. It may be that those larger clusters are the limiting factor for toughness. S30V . According to the chemical composition and the HRC of the steel, the CPM s90v Steel has the following features: CPM s90v Edge Retention: With a high presence of vanadium and carbon, s90v steel offers extreme edge retention (might be the best in the steel). lbs., the transverse toughness of CPM S30V is four times greater than that of 440C or 154CM. 18. The resulting steel is expected to have similar hardness and corrosion resistance to S30V and S35VN. Exhibiting very good edge retention, corrosion resistance, and sharpenability, S30V is utilized by a variety of makers for its performance and balance. After quenching, one third of the specimens were left at room temperature, another third of the specimens were placed in my freezer (a normal household basement variety), and the final third were placed in liquid nitrogen for a cryo treatment. Quick View Thickness. Despite the reduced carbide content of SPY27 the toughness was similar to S35VN. I then refinished them and started the 1% saltwater test which was 48 hours long. However, I think the toughness of S30V could be further improved with better heat treating, if we use what we learned with heat treating S35VN, S45VN, and SPY27. $151.25. S35VN had a somewhat reduced vanadium content (3%) in combination with 0.5% niobium. There is also a small nitrogen addition which is made to increase hardness and corrosion resistance, as described in this article. And sharpening is probably a bit easier to S35VN. The edge retention is likely a small step down from S35VN. You can read about edge retention and predicting it based on carbide content and hardness here. The SPY refers to Spyderco and 27 is the atomic number of cobalt [2]. The steel is capable of relatively high hardness, reaching over 65 Rc “as-quenched” before tempering, and nearly 64 Rc even without a cold treatment. The austenitizing temperatures were 1950, 2000, 2050, and 2100°F. CPM SPY27 steel. ; 2.25% of Molybdenum: Increase Machinability and strength. These higher transverse toughness results indicate that CPM S30V is much CPM-S30V has become one of the most used premium steels on the market among knife manufacturers. However, you can still see my predictions in that previous article. Para Military™ 2 G-10 Digital Camo. Sale Price: $126.00.

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